What Culture of Success Are You Creating? (with Carly Jo Bell)

Renae: Well, welcome Carly. I am so glad that you are joining us here for the TraumaWise Workplace Summit. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Absolutely. I'm honored. I'm so glad that you said yes. I have really enjoyed learning from you in my own endeavors, both in my personal business and TraumaWise, the work that you have done has had a significant impact on the way I'm thinking about things and communicating. And so I was, I was really thankful that you said yes, and I would love for you to introduce yourself and Whole(Co) Media to the to the audience.

Carly: Thank you. Yes, hello. I'm Carly Jo Bell. I am the founder of Whole(Co) Media, a sustainable success mentor who helps micro business owners bridge the gap between short-term revenue generation and long-term sustainable success. So we do that by expanding your business-building acumen, equipping you to confidently lead as the CEO who makes strategic decisions and is able to grow with vision and integrity,

Renae: beautiful and all of those words are carefully developed and selected with intentionality, and that's a little bit about what we're going to talk about today, is how our messaging is not just words, but what it communicates and meaning and the implications for the culture that we set up in Our spaces and most specifically in our organizations and workplaces. So I'd love to hear a little bit about the mission and vision of Whole( Co), because I think that really informs your approach to things.

Carly: Yeah, I will be honest and say that I don't have a mission and vision statement perfectly written out. And what I am here to do, the way that I see it, is to lead a movement towards sustainable success, and that is particularly within business, obviously. And I have a little bit of a secret mission where it's like, yeah, we're doing this in business, but actually it's translating into every single area of life. So it really is, you know, the way I look at it is that it's sustainable success as opposed to speedy success. I think so much of our culture, but especially in the kind of microcosm of the online business world is focused on, how do I make the most amount of money in the least amount of time doing the least or most depending the least or most amount of work, which inevitably always comes at the cost of Our energy, of our values, of our priorities, etc. And so what my work is actually, how do we step out of speedy success and create sustainable success, success that is aligned with our values and priorities in both our actions, but also in our outcomes?

Renae: And so when there are two things I would like to follow up with on that, the first is this values alignment piece. This is not simply for nonprofits and social enterprises, but when you're introducing this to people in this business space, what kind of spectrum of responses do you get when you talk about this, this value we're sustained by living into our values in the work that we're doing?

Carly: I love this question because I hadn't realized this necessarily before, but I don't necessarily lead with what are your values and how do we implement that in your business? And I actually think I would get a totally different response if I led with that. How I do it is more first and foremost looking at what you want, what you actually want in your life? What is your definition of success? And when we start to get clear on what our definition of success is, our values become actually obvious at that point, and not even to the point where we're thinking, Oh, great, now this is what my value is. So how do I build there? But it's okay, what's my definition of success? Okay, what kind of business do I need to build that creates that, or that enables that? So, as an example, my definition of success is not really a definition. Per se, but the way I see definition for me or Success for me is joy plus wealth equals thriving. And wealth is an a larger than just money wealth. It's like wealth of relationships, wealth of experiences, wealth of creativity, etc. And so if I'm building a business, thinking about success in terms of what brings me joy, what brings me wealth, so that I can thrive. That's a completely different business that I'm going to build than if I were just saying, How do I make the most amount of money in the least amount of time? Right? And so it's when we come with our own definitions of success, and we actually have to, it's a little bit of a unlearning process, because there's a lot of definitions that we've been sold that we might still be buying into without realizing it, but when we find our own definition of success, it's that aha moment, and now it's like, whoa. Actually, I've been building my business in this way, but that's leading me down a path I don't actually want to go down. And so then it becomes almost obvious or innate to start building in a way that is more values aligned. For me, it becomes more obvious or innate to start building in a way that actually does bring me joy, that actually does bring me holistic wealth,

Renae: is that part of where the name whole co came from, is this holistic view.

Carly: You know, what's so funny is I named my business without thinking about it. Well, I thought about it obviously, but it wasn't like I didn't think about all of the implications of it. The real reason that I named it Whole Co Media, well, media got tagged on there because that was the URL that was available. But the whole CO was kind of like a community, and then the whole is a, do I have time for a story here? When I was back in college, I had an amazing art professor and mentor, and one of the first exercises that he had us do was a self-portrait, um, but not a literal self-portrait. A, you know, it could be anything, but it needed to represent us. And it ended up drawing a side view of a woman's face, and then on part of it. Sorry about that cat. On part of it, I wrote just over and over and over, too much, too much, too much, too much. On the other hand, I wrote, not enough, not enough, not enough, not enough. And I battled with this self portrait for however long we were working on it, because I was like, I kept adding things because I felt like there wasn't enough on it, and then I'd add things like, Oh, now there's too much. Of course, didn't see the irony of that until later. And then one day in class, we were working on it, and I was just so frustrated with this self-portrait because it just wasn't working how I wanted it to. And so I called my teacher over, and I was explaining why I didn't like it, and his response was, of course, after a little bit of a pause, I think you don't like it because it's true, of course, tears. And he challenged me, in that moment, to find a different word for enough, because enough is a values statement, or a value statement, right? It's subjective to whoever's looking at it. And so the word I came to was whole, because you either have a whole pie or not a whole pie. So that word, I have a little circle tattoo that reminds me of that. And so that word has just been important to me for over a decade at this point. And when it came to naming my business, I was like, I want to bring that in

Renae: beautiful and, and, and so thank you so much for sharing that I could feel the tears prickling in that moment with you, with the professor, and it's tender, because it's true, right? It's true in there. So even though you're like, somewhere, this messaging had shown up. Um, that told me I had this reality, that it was this and this, that this is what I was made up of, and so we are inundated constantly with messaging. I like to tell people that there's a very smart group of people in a room somewhere who is just carefully trying to figure out the pain points that you have. In order to get you to buy something. And that's been part of our even our conversation in businesses, the I refuse to do pain point prodding, and it has driven some people who've worked with me crazy because they're like, but you need to this, and then it's how you get the customer, it's how you make the sale, it's how you evoke this emotion. And I'm like, I refuse to just regulate someone to make money. It's not gonna do it. It's not part of my values alignment.

Renae: And I think what's been really awesome for me is in working with you over the year plus, there are so many ways that you're giving words to the way that I have wanted to do business, of carefully and thoughtfully communicating, and even to be communicating to myself, which brings us back to that, that question o success and what that looks like, and that it is going to be different for each person and how, for you, that moment of it, it you don't like it because it's true. Like it, like it's touching something, because it's hitting this truth layer. How do you recognize when something is being communicated that is in alignment versus out of alignment? And I know it's going to feel different for everybody. I've heard you use the word resistance a lot, like you notice the resistance and what it's telling you, right? Again, another message. But how? How can people recognize when something's out of alignment? Because we think that's a way that we understand when things aren't drama-wise, when it's coming up against our internal wisdom. So I'd love to hear any thoughts you have about that.

Carly: Gosh, that's a great question, and I think you would have amazing answers to that question as well. And the way that I see it is that, well, I'll start with the way that it shows up for me is often procrastination, and what I've learned over the years is I have to check in when I'm procrastinating. Am I procrastinating because I'm afraid that, oh gosh, this is going to be really good and this is actually something I'm excited about, or am I procrastinating because this is so draining and it's not something that's aligned for me at all? So that's my personal little tell. As you said, it's going to be different for everyone. But I go back to thinking about kind of like, the societal definitions of success, because I think those can give us some insights into, you know, is this something that is actually aligned for me? Is it something that's not, and I think about a lot of our patriarchal white supremacists, like different definitions of success include things like, more is always better, and faster is always better than slower, and hierarchical thinking. And so I think maybe for someone who doesn't know their own tells yet, for that alignment, it could be helpful to look at the things that they're doing and ask, is this rooted in any of those things? Is this rooted in the idea that the person is better than I am, or do I have to be better than that, than other people? Is this rooted in the idea that I have to do this as fast as I can, or else I'm not valuable? Is it rooted in the idea that I have to be doing the absolute most in order to be seen as someone who is, you know, acceptable in society? So I think that can provide a bit of a entry point into, then starting to be able to check in on Okay, well, how does that what's the pattern, the resistance pattern that does consistently show up for me when I am trying to do one of those things, if I think about my own business and some of the past messaging that I've used, and I've, you know, I've been very vocal about my experience and my journey with really changing A lot of my messaging as I began to learn more about trauma and also, you know, reckoning with my own definitions of success within myself.

Carly: But when I think about some of my past messaging, I was very focused on making money as the end goal. And, you know, I look back at that and it's like, Well, very often. Obviously, that was rooted in the idea that more is always better than less. And that's not true, actually. And then I look back and I say, Okay, well, that's how I was living. What were some of those like? What are some of the other ways that that was showing up, that these kinds of patriarchal, white supremacist, etc, beliefs were showing up? It was showing up in my personal life and my relationships, and, you know, the type of home that I rented, right? Like it showed up in all of these different places. And so I think if I would have, yeah, had some awareness around what some of those societal definitions of success were, they could have given me that insight into Hang on, something's a little bit off here, because I don't think I've chosen this. I think this has been chosen by someone else, and I've just picked it up. Yeah,

Renae: And I, oh my gosh. So my brain just kind of exploded a little bit in a good way, because I'm tearful thinking that it's been chosen by someone else, right? So it's some of that, that same narrative, but that when we, when we are in organizations, in groups and situations where there's a cultural, overarching, cultural definition of how things are to be. It's at the expense of the truth of the person. And so there is a trauma that occurs when we have to subvert our true, wonderful, beautiful, whole selves. We become we're not whole in that, in that space, we have to, we have to mask, we have to cover up, and we can't let that shine in those spaces, because there's either not space for it, or there's red, you know, there's some form of punishment that occurs, and it's whenever there is a person who or a group of people who believe that their needs and wants and desires are more important than others, and that they have to subjugate or deny or dismiss or invalidate another group of people to get it, which is right? It's the dehumanization of it. And so the way that we pick success for our business, for our organization, for our workplace, is going to communicate our level of humanity in that space?

Carly: Yeah, and I think it's like, you can see this on every level, but some of it is more obvious than others. I think so many business owners, especially, I think about like, past versions of myself. I think about people that I've worked with in the past. I think about clients, right, like who we don't necessarily sit there and say, Oh, I'm subjugating someone else so that I can have, you know, what I want. And that's still the effect. And it just to, you know, again, speak to my own experience here, when I'm using messaging that is defining success unintentionally, but it's what it was doing, is using messaging that was defining success as making more money. What I'm doing is attracting people into work who are like, okay, that's, that's the definition.

Carly: So I need to turn off everything else in the pursuit of achieving that. And then that. What this does is, it might make me money, it might make them money, but at some point it's just create. It's, it's every layer actually creating that subjugation, where, now I've defined success looks like this, and then they're like, Okay, great, put everything to the side. Only pursue that. And then what are the decisions that they're making in the pursuit of that that are still subjugating another group of people? And so, of course, none of us intends to do that. I'm not sitting there, like, how do I make you turn off all of your internal wisdom, you know? Like, that's not the intention. And if we're not being really intentional with how we are defining success, we end up creating those sorts of outcomes, and it's painful to realize that, and I feel very passionate about being very vocal about it, because if we're not vocal about it, then we're just going to keep doing it. It. And I do think in profit, nonprofit, etc, worlds, we have a responsibility to change things. Do I think I can change the entire world by focusing on sustainable success? No? Do I think that I can contribute to a movement? Absolutely. Yeah.

Renae: Yeah. So refreshing. I'm just like, so grateful for the conversation, and I'm going to ask that it's going to be, like, maybe a surprise question, because it's going to be kind of deep. But could you, could you reflect a little bit on the repair process with yourself when you recognized what you've fallen into, what you defaulted to. So there's the you talked about it vocally, the repair with the community, which is, hey, I've been doing it this way. Here's what I realized, here's what I'm going to change. I'm on this path. Please let me know. Please communicate. But what about that? Work with yourself. Can you do you have any space to reflect on that?

Carly: You know? I think I'll have an even better answer in like, a week from now, when it's percolated, and I'm happy to give you my right now answer. So there are a couple of layers to this. One is that a few months ago, I discovered I'm autistic, so that definitely played into this, even though I didn't know it was playing into it several years ago, when I was making this shift across my business, the reason I bring that is because one thing that was really powerful for me, or actually two pieces that were really powerful for me, and being able to see that I even wanted to make this shift was work with an anti racism Coach, Makeda Penny Cook, and also work with Joanna Lindenbaum, who is a coaching coach. I can't think of the right word there, but she teaches you how to coach effectively and in a trauma-informed way. And with both of those, with the work that was happening in both of those containers, a lot of it was about going from a head level to a body level.

Carly: And when I look at my journey, with kind of starting to reconcile the Yeah, the realization of, oh, wow, I have been doing things in a way that I don't actually like. So much of the work had to happen more on the body level than on the head level, because, and I think this is a way that autism has shown up for me, is that I've lived most of my life in my head entirely, and so that's fine to a degree, right? Because I can logic through things, and that's great, but I had to really learn how to start going into my body with things. And so at the beginning of that realization about my messaging, it was easy to make the shift in my brain. There was no reason for me, I'm very black and white with if something's right or wrong, great, I'm happy to just do the right thing. Like, once I know the parameters, I will do the thing, you know. So on the head level, it was easy, but then it was that body level of like, wow. There's some shame living here about, like, wow, I would have done things a lot differently, or recognition of even if clients were happy, like, I can still see how the way I was leading actually harmed them. And so, having to, I wouldn't even say having, but like getting to work with the shame that then was living in my body was a painful process. And it wasn't even necessarily just shame about the business pieces, right? It was just then, about like, all of the areas of my life where I have unconsciously done different things like that. So, yeah, I don't know if that's answering your question, but it was the having to take things from the head level to the body level and start really reckoning there. And finding, finding, being able to move through the shame, face it right, and befriend it, work with it, and then also at the same time. I'm being introduced to other parts of myself that could help me continue navigating that, and then have still helped me continue being able to be vocal about this experience. Yeah,

Renae: I think that's a beautiful illustration of wholeness when you're talking about integration, right? It is the it is inviting those, those pieces of us that have arisen during our life for to fill certain roles and do certain things, to belong, to align, to survive, and all of that when they, when you, when we're bringing that together and saying, I really want this holistic I want this whole person, authentic self, to shine through. Here it is. How do we integrate it in a way that is honoring of the roles that those parts played, and then also, um, with, without the shame that holds us back, right? So there's the shame to help us realize when we move out of alignment. Yeah, right, but it is. It's not that we don't want to hold us back. And so moving into that, that place where we can move forward in wholeness, and say, Alright, and that way I can pay attention to what's happening in my brain and my body to tell me, is this safe? Am I connected? Can I regulate, who are my safe people, which are, you know, the three pillars of our TraumaWise approach are felt safety, connection and co-regulation in our brain and body coming into alignment with our with our values. The more that we do that, the more accessible it seems that we can be creative and thoughtful and intentional about the ways that we create that felt safety, connection, and co-regulation.

Renae: So I think it's just a really beautiful even though you were prepared for the question, you did a really good job sharing with us that, because you literally talked about the repair piece of it, so I didn't even have to wait for a week. It was just a really good time, time now, and I would love to hear for from you about a little bit of the check, when, like, how, how, how did you recognize? What was that? What were some of those flash points that, because I know that it was about the money, the money, messaging of some of the courses and the material, but there was also inclusivity, language within the website and the material as well. And so I don't know if those were separate flash points, if they were connected, but either of those, both of those, if you wanted to share what helped you.

Carly: Yeah. I, I, I am someone who sees everything as, like, deeply interconnected. And so I have a hard time with being like, this was happening here, and that was happening there, and I see it, I feel like my life is all just one thread. And so it's, yeah, so this is an interesting to think about. I think a lot of it was kind of the entry point, I would say, was the work on, just like the initial kind of, oh, wait, I'm not supposed to just live in my head all of the time. That was an aha for me. And then that, taking me into my body, right? Made me start to be like, Oh, wait, I don't feel good when I'm doing these things. And then also, I started to see different examples of people who were not living according to the external, societally defined visions of success. And so then that was like a hold on a second. I didn't know there was another option kind of deal. And I think that is another again, to bring in the autism piece is another thing for me, of when I see that something is supposed to be done a certain way, then I'm like, okay, that's how it's supposed to be done. And so until I see an altar. It option. I don't realize that there is an alternate option. And so, yeah, starting to really see other people pushing back against the, let's say, like the money piece, or being, I mean, gosh, I remember. I can't remember when it was, what year it was, but when Layla F, I can't remember how to say her last name. Saad Saeed first published me in white supremacy just for free on her website. And I started reading that, and I was like, oh, okay, you know, so things like all of these moments where it's like people are opening up that conversation, and then I see it, and I'm like, Oh my gosh, I never would have even known to ask some of these questions or to I wouldn't have even known these were other options. So I just see all of these pieces kind of compiled until I got to the point a few years ago where I, yeah, was, well, I guess another piece was I got really sick. And actually, I think what started it was that I started to have really intense anxiety, and then I got sick, like, a year later. So that whole journey also made me have to slow down. And then I was like, Wait, if I'm slowing down, who am I? Because I'm known as someone who is able to go really fast and do all these things all the time.

Carly: So yeah, it's, it's kind of, I can't necessarily say this was the point or that was the point, but I see how all of these things piled on top of one another and just kind of created this, whoa, I have to do things differently. And then I would say it took about a year, while I was doing a rebrand process. And so during that process, I was like, Okay, well, this is kind of my opportunity to actually make these shifts in very public and, like, you know, solid ways. And so, yeah, it was just a whole random string of things that then led to, okay, I am ready to now present this in a more public way.

Renae: Yeah, I think I had to slow down. I couldn't do things the same way. A piece of that, I think, is like a central essential. I can't think of the word, but it's not a pillar. It's something else, but a linchpin. It's a linchpin to the whole thing. I think that's what we saw with the pandemic, because the moment that we slowed down, we started to see societal cracks in a much larger way, because we weren't as distracted. We couldn't do things the same way. We've had to learn brand new ways of doing things. And I think it has provided this great opportunity for us to look at how we are writing policies, what procedures are we doing? How do, how did, how do our policies actually get practiced? Is there an alignment between our policies and our practice? How does this play out? And when we're when it we're pushing, when we're when we're hustling, when we are turning off our bodies or our brains to do, to do the task it, we don't get those checks as much, right, where it's much easier for us to to allow be unaware of them, right? And I have to think that for myself, it's when someone says something that deep, deep, deep down inside I was, I was like, I feel this way, but everyone else is swimming the other direction, and so I just gotta keep it. I got it. You know, like our cave. The person inside of us knows that if we get sent out of the cave, we will die. So we have to belong. So, at the biological level, I have to belong to survive, but inside, it just does not feel right at all. And so we need voices to say, there's a different way to do this, because then we go, Oh, you mean I get to let me breathe? Yeah. So there I am, I have just a couple more questions, and then, and then we can be done with it Yes, so you brought people through these exploratory processes to tease out their definition of success, that their values. How. That's playing out how they get to serve the world, themselves, others, through those passions, the what they want to be doing, the things that actually light them up. So, what isn't a process or a thought or a way that somebody who's in a leadership position or building a culture in a workplace, what might be some place that they can start to tease out is, is this culture really TraumaWise? Is this culture really creating felt safety and connection in a container that co-regulation is a container where people can be who they are, for real. Any thoughts around what you might say to somebody?

Carly: Yeah, I think it's again. I'll just also say, I know you have great answers to this question too, so I'll add my own. And I you, yeah, you're someone to definitely listen to with this as well. But I have learned through my own training, through my actual practical experience is that it's really valuable to start on the head level and to start with just open exploratory questions, and even starting with things like, you know, I let a retreat, which you were at about, and part of it was, we're finding our definition of success. And one of the first questions I asked was, when you hear the word success, or when you think of someone who is successful, what do you picture, right? And so that right there can even kind of elicit some answers that sometimes surprise us, especially those of us who are very self-aware and into the, you know, into all of this inner work. Because it's like, it shows, oh, when I think of success, I think of someone in a suit. I think of a man in a suit. So that right there, it's like, hang on a second, I'm picturing a man in a suit when I'm thinking of someone who is successful. So that is showing that I still have some of these kinds of ideas of success. Is men, not women, or, you know, gender non-conforming folks? Success is professionalism by a very specific standard, right? And then I can, from there, look at, well, where am I perpetuating some of these things in the organization I'm leading, in the business I'm building, in the way that I am speaking about success, publicly defining success. So starting on that more head level with just a little bit of an open exploration can create some of that more, yeah, openness. And then from there, looking at, okay, what? How might this still be playing out? Where might this still be playing out? And yeah, I think we again, especially for, I imagine a lot of your audience, people who are very, they're all they're really working on this, they're really thinking about these things. It's we all still have our own biases, and so if we can start to get clear on them, then we can start to also draw connections between those biases and how we're leading, how we're showing up, where the policies we're creating, the messaging we're using, all of that.

Renae: Beautiful, thank you. Again. I know it was like this kind of question, you did a fantastic job with it. So thank you for rolling with it. I pause. I'm about to ask you about your contribution to the welcome care package. So Carly, thank you so much for the wisdom that you have shared with us, that both the internal wisdom and then the lived experience and skills and knowledge that you brought together to really give us another perspective and way of thinking about that we can do it differently. We can do business differently. We can create workplaces differently. And that is, it is collective, it is a movement that we. All have our heart to play, and so I know that you're graciously providing opportunity for people to be able to work on this in certain ways. I'd love for you to tell people about that. Yeah,

Carly: I'm so excited. I am running a live workshop. It's a three-hour, you know, kind of experience where it's called redefining success for sustainability on April 9, and there will be a replay, if you can't be there live. But the whole intention of this live training, and it is more of a workshop we're going to be doing things together, is to guide you, to uncover the unconscious definitions of success that may be driving your business decisions away from sustainability. Then we'll go from there, from kind of this, okay, we've uncovered some things, and we've maybe decided to start letting some of these things go we'll move into intentionally redefining success in a way that aligns with your values, contributes to more sustainable growth and empowers you to make decisions that honor both your needs, your audience's needs, your business's needs. And when I think about, you know, all of us who want to build sustainably, who want to build in a trauma-informed or trauma-aware way, who want to build in a way that honors the humanity of ourselves and our clients and any other stakeholders involved, right? We have to actually be clear on our own personal definition of success, and it has to be a definition that is truly sustainable for us individually. And it's really only from there that we can build the team to use some of your language, the policies, the procedures, the processes, all of that, the culture, everything. It's only from there that we can actually build all of those things in a way that one contributes to our own thriving, right? Two also contributes to creating the world that we want to be in. So it's happening April 9. It's normally 150, but it's free for everyone who is here, and I would love to see everyone there.

Renae: awesome. Oh, you're so generous, and I'm so grateful for this very, very practical step forward, and I could see this is, this is for anybody at any level of an organization or level of leadership in the world, this is a good central question. And if you've been wondering if you are a person, that's especially if you're more of the head person, that's like, I'm thinking about this. I am processing it. It's percolating all of those things to go through. This practice gives you tangible, tangible steps forward, and not to mention, you're going to meet some really great people, because really great people show up for these things. Harley, thank you so much for your time and your wisdom and just your awesomeness. We're really thankful for you being here.

Carly: Thank you. It's been a pleasure.