Silence Creates Isolation: Trauma-Informed Ministry Responses to Abuse (with Cerise Woodard)

Renae: Well, welcome Cerise to the TraumaWise podcast. We're so glad to have you here.

Cerise: And I'm happy to be here.

Renae: Excellent. You are one of the brave. You're one of the brave and amazing people who said yes to the TraumaWise ministry conversations. The first version of that that we're doing here, um, in May of twenty twenty six. And your topic for that is so poignant, timely and important That I'm. I'm glad that we get to have this conversation to share with the TraumaWise audience and so, so that other people can know why I'm so excited to have you here. I'd love for you to go ahead and introduce yourself.

Cerise: Well, my name is Cerise Woodard. By trade, I am a registered nurse. I am certified in forensic nurse as a forensic nurse examiner. I'm nationally certified as a sexual assault nurse examiner, and I've done other fields of nursing, and I currently do other fields of nursing. But that is my my baby, my passion point that I specifically went into that field because I wanted to disrupt the industry of exploitation and abuse. I wanted I wanted to use my nursing degree to help victims and educate health care providers on What victims and survivors look like that aren't disclosing. Like what? Signs ahead of time before they get to me. Could maybe a health care provider recognize to give trauma informed care and you know, so that patient feels safe enough to disclose. So there's, there's all, all of that in one. Um, but because I deal with victims and survivors, I also built a platform boundless her, which is a platform that's built on awareness, education, advocacy, and mainly now prevention. I know how to deal with people after the event has happened. I want to focus on getting ahead of it and either preventing it altogether, or if they're already in a situation, help it get identified so that they can get out of that exploitative situation earlier.

Renae: And what you just described is some of the most challenging day to day work that is done.

Cerise: It is. Right. Very much so.

Renae: Yeah. And when you when you go into nursing, you, you know that depending on what kind of nursing, um, what kind of care environment that you're in that you're going to have, you know, varying levels of exposure and, um, you know, intimacy and, um, length of, of knowing a patient. Mhm. And in what you're talking about, we're talking about some of the most vulnerable and painful moments in a person's life. And, and you're there in, in a lot of respects to help give voice to it. So it's not even about the healing. It's about the telling of the story.

Cerise: Right? Yes. So as a forensic nurse and a sexual assault nurse examiner, yes, I am at that traumatic point, that aftermath after a traumatic event. And yes, they're having to retell their story, having to relive the, um, the violence that they endured. So yeah, it's it's hard. Absolutely. I mean, but I also know that I am their first step towards healing. So how I handle them and that immediate aftermath makes a big difference.

Renae: Absolutely. And, as you've been building this platform and doing this work and, um, acting in this space as, as both an advocate and an educator and a, and a voice to the care systems and to other systems to talk about how do we not traumatize and retraumatize people who've experienced things. Um, and to, to honor their story, honor their experience as they have experienced it. Um, I, I'm really curious to hear about the, how did you bring this to the ministry space? I, I see the connections there, but I would love for you to talk about how you, how those things connect for you.

Cerise: Well, number one, if we talk about ministry, if we're talking about any religious construct, Right. Um, any houses of worship. Their basis is to help people, right. Their basis is to. Help people find healing and love and care. I mean, that is the basis of all houses of worship, no matter what, um, what your religion is, right? And. When people are coming to those houses of worship, they are seeking healing. They're seeking joy, they're seeking peace. And these are those houses of worship should be drawing people who need healing and peace, who need help, who are exploited, who are vulnerable. That should be a place that they can come. But if they come and they are in an abusive situation. Um, and do they feel safe to tell anyone that? Is there any indication in those houses that shows this is a safe space? Or let's just even say someone who grew up in a religious community, but they grew up in that religious community in an abusive household. And but no one's ever talking about abuse as it being a bad thing, right? Everything that's being said, it has to do with submission and, and listening to the head of the household or the leader or that that dynamic right of hierarchy. So if that's like all you're hearing The. Are they going to feel safe to say that? Like I feel threatened. I feel, um, mistreated. I feel like, are they going to feel safe to say that to anyone? So that's why I, I want I and don't, don't get me wrong, I mean, I truly believe houses of worship mean what they, they are describing themselves as. They want people to come. They want to help people. They want to heal people. But sometimes that, um, the teachings or the structure or the hierarchy can inadvertently cause more harm and prevent a safe space versus, um, nurture it. So that's why, I mean, I am, I am a Christian, I go to church regularly. I've been involved in church. I've been a leader in the church. So I know those dynamics and I'm not going to be in this space and see, um, all the, the trauma and things that are going on and not try to make my house a worship a safe space so that that's how it is happened. And I'm working very hard because I feel the church has always, churches have always been there for the community. And statistically, this is a big impact on our community. So you can't ignore it. You can't you it has to be addressed by houses of worship because it is too. It is impacting people in the congregation, whether they've identified it or not. It's happening just by the statistics alone.

Renae: Absolutely. And I and I think that, you know, as you're describing, you're just as you're describing this, I'm I'm reflecting about the prevalence sometimes in certain cultural dynamics, in church settings, there can be such a high control culture that can provide a little bit of safety, but then quickly becomes just the same type of level as if you were in a domestic abuse or high control situation at home. And so there is a, there's also an opportunity, um, to, is people are, are learning more about the, how, how these things work, um, in the dynamics and about love bombing and about the ways that people are are drawn in and then isolated. Um, that that gives us an indication, I mean, that conversation can be for a congregation or it can be for an abuser. The patterns are actually very similar.

Cerise: Very, very similar. And that's what I'm, that's my point in all, all houses of worship, there's some sort of hierarchy and I'm the spiritual leader. And it can easily become a power control dynamic where this I am. What I'm saying is to be followed. What I am saying, I'm the leader. I've been blessed or gifted or called or, or what have you. And it's very easy for that, that person to have that power and control dynamic where what I say is, is the law and, and how it should be. And very often that is passed on to the family dynamic. So, um, I am never going to say I will put this out there. I am not saying women cannot be abusers, but by and large it is males abusing women. And so again, in those those houses of worship and those religious constructs, you have the man that's the head of the household. Um, and that's most cultures and most religions is the man, the head of the household. And so again, you're creating that, that power control dynamic that if it's not taught in, um, the right context, then we're facilitating abusive relationships.

Renae: And so when, when a person is, um, entering into the, a congregation or has been part of a congregation, and there's a moment where they start to feel that something is off, they might not have the words to say, or they might not feel like it's safe. But what are some things that that people might notice or sense that they could, they could maybe reach out to like an organization like yours or other trusted people to say, I think something might be going on.

Cerise: So and your question is in reference to someone who is in a abusive relationship and they are recognizing something doesn't feel right.

Renae: I whether it is at home or whether it's in a church context. Okay.

Cerise: So, so initially, I feel most people. Okay, we're speaking about a religious construct. But again, you go there because you want community, you want support, you want love, you want peace, you want hope, right? And if you're in an abusive relationship, all of that seems really far away. You don't feel loved, you feel and you know, you get to the point of feeling hopeless because you have, um, people maybe talking about love or again, I want to make the, the religious part as neutral as possible. Whatever higher power, right, is supposed to be giving them love and providing love and love them, you know, but you're not feeling loved at home, you're feeling mistreated, you're feeling put down, you're feeling, um. You're, you're feeling a lot of anger and animosity that is being put towards you. So in a religion and, or if this is happening from a church member to, you know, as from a church leader to a church member. So then you start questioning things like, okay, I'm hearing one thing about love and peace and hope, and I'm feeling the exact opposite. So that's usually that cognitive dissonance is what we call it. They, you usually start to have that cognitive dissonance and it sort of makes you feel crazy because it's, it's like, well, what am I supposed to believe? AM I supposed to believe what I'm hearing? Or am I supposed to believe what I'm feeling? And that's usually the first like step of this doesn't feel right. If, um, say for me, I, I read the Bible, what I'm reading in the Bible about love and care and concern is not being translated in real life, right? So those, those things, um, are usually the first steps where you start questioning like something doesn't feel right. Uh, I. I'm. And then, you know, you may be feeling a little crazy because if you. And especially initially, if you feel like you want to speak up about it or push back a little bit like that wasn't, you know, that made me feel bad when you said that that was very hurtful. And then they may say something like, you're being too sensitive. So now you feel, you feel crazy, like, well, am I being too sensitive? You know? So once you have that scenario going on for a while, that's when I feel like people start feeling like something's not right. Like I, like I said, that cognitive dissonance, I'm hearing one thing, but that's not the reality.

Renae: Right? And that's such a, I, I would have said the exact same thing like that phrase cognitive dissonance, because it is that moment of I'm looking around and there's no one else see that this just happened. It's a really an amazing thing as humans that that when we are confused or frightened, we, we actually automatically look up to see if there's anyone else who will make eye contact with us and say, yeah, I see it too.

Cerise: Mhm. And most people are too self-absorbed or, you know, everyone has a lot going on at any given moment. So again, it's not that people don't want to help or don't care. Or if people aren't aware, they they're in their own world. They have their own concerns and worries and, and things going on. So yes, when that person looks up, they're not seeing anyone who's seeing it.

Renae: Yeah. Yeah. And that's, I think that's part of the when we're talking about even, um, you know, ministry and, and it at the, at the base line, everything that you're talking about with the hope and the love and the being seen and heard and valued. Um, is that ministry of presence, which, um, I, I also follow Jesus and I'm as I'm, as I study and study and study the ministry of Jesus. It's all presence. It is all being with and it is all being with people in lots of different things that they're experiencing and lots of situations where healing is needed. And there's, there's, there's that I am with you. Um, that is at the heart where when people say, well, I'm not, I'm not qualified to lead in a church. This right here, the ministry of presence is everybody's ministry.

Cerise: Right. Exactly. Empathy. Everybody's ministry.

Renae: Mhm.

Cerise: Yeah.

Renae: We should make a bumper sticker.

Cerise: I'll get on that. Let me take a note.

Renae: And so and so what what happens though, because you're right that there are so many people in congregations and in, in spaces where people are, are coming to, um, to gather in community and they don't mean to be hurtful with the things that they say, but there are some just really dumb things we've been conditioned to say that are unintentionally harmful. Um, and so, you know what, what is some guidance for us to think about? What are things that, that we could practice saying, you know, in our head before we respond to someone who's expressed that they are experiencing something?

Cerise: Okay. So first, let's review some of those things people say that would can unintentionally cause for the harm. If someone is disclosing that they are in an abusive relationship or a controlling relationship, maybe there's no physical harm. There's just a lot of emotional abuse. Um, and people, religious people will say, have you prayed about it? Um, that's probably the most common one. Um, oh, we have to forgive seventy times seven. That's the Christian Bible seventy times seven. We have to forgive. Oh, you just have to be more patient. The patience of job. That's again, a Christian reference, right? You have to have patience. So I think those are all good biblical attributes that people should practice and should Pray and things like that. However, that is not appropriate response. If someone is saying they're in a controlling relationship, they're. They fear harm, they feel threatened, they are being harmed. That is not the appropriate response. If someone is coming to you and and saying that, your first thing should be to acknowledge what they said in a believing way, like I believe you because that's another, uh, I'm sorry. That's another, um, thing people say that causing unintentional harm. I can't believe that he's so nice. I would never he's so helpful. He's so kind. Like, so the first trauma informed, helpful thing we can do is hear what they said and believe them and let them know we believe them Because trust me, if someone is saying that it took them a lot of courage for them to say it, because they also probably know that it's hard to believe because he's so nice with everyone else, right? So they know that you don't know what's going on with them. So that's why they're telling you. So believing them and then even thanking them for trusting you with that information. Right? That's like I said, a huge step. It wasn't, it didn't it's usually not. It just happened yesterday. And now I'm telling you, that's not the normal scenario. So it takes a lot of courage to actually, um, say what's happening to you out loud to someone. So I would definitely say thank them for trusting you with that information. Um, again, Let's help them feel seen and heard by those those two steps. And then you're not going to tell them what to do. That's not your role. It's not your job. It asks them, how would you like me to support you? Because just because someone is in an abusive relationship or controlling relationship, whether or not they should get out of the relationship is not someone else's responsibility or decision to make. We are not going to further try to control them by telling them what to do. We want to empower them to think for themselves. Because again, if you're in this relationship, a lot of your confidence has been taken up a lot. So you start to doubt your ability to even make good decisions or make any decisions. So let's empower them by supporting what they would like to do. So sometimes that is not I want to leave right now. Help me pack my things. That's not it. So you want to ask them how they want to be supported. And that may be having that conversation, finishing talking to them, listening to them. Um, it could be connecting them with other resources because more than likely, you know, again, and, and a lot of houses of worship, yes, there are some professionals and clinicians and houses of worship, but it could very well be a non-clinical person. So they may not have the. Resources. So connecting them to resources, if um, that's what the person would like, you know, they may say something like, I just, I don't even know what my next steps are. So if they want you to help them make their next steps, that's getting resources, that's contacting a local advocacy center or contacting a hotline. There's hotlines for domestic violence, so connect them to someone else. They may want therapy or counseling. So connecting people to those resources. But again, letting them lead the steps as to what they need. They some people, they may want you to, I don't want to say back up. That's the first word that came to my mind, but not necessarily be their backup. But you can make a safety plan with them. So a safety plan could look like if I text you this key word, I have to go like it's time for me to get out of the house. You know, I might need a ride or, you know, everyone's safety plan is going to look different depending on their situation and what they need help with. But the main thing is believing them, appreciating that they trusted you and asking them how they need to be supported and not running over their decision making. Like you need to leave, let's go. We're going to get your stuff. We're packing up your stuff. That's not that is not a trauma informed way to do things.

Renae: Right. The, the, when we look at the whole concept of trauma, um, there is a, a powerlessness to it when people talk about, um, it's so interesting. A lot of the writing I do, um, when, you know, if I put it through a, a grammar filter, it says you're using a lot of passive tenses and I'm the, and I'm like, yes, that's actually on purpose because these are things that are happening to people, right? It's like, right, this is not a choice. And and so I think that it is speaking to that that powerlessness and that acknowledging the, the strength of, of being brave to tell the story. Um, being brave to, to trust and, um, and even the practice of asking if you can ask, I think that that's something that I have learned is to say, um, can I ask any other questions or can I, can I offer an idea that I have or would this be helpful? And, and again, you get a read on do how much do they want you to resource them and how much do they want you to hold space for them? And, and even naming and saying to them, I want to do the right thing. And so if I, if I try to take too much action, It's okay for you to tell me. Stop. Just listen. Yeah, right. And for me not to make that mean anything about me. Because I'm actually there for them.

Cerise: Yeah, that's a good point. Because, you know, I feel most people, even when I do presentations in churches or do training, people are like, well, what if I say the wrong thing? And I feel if you focus on them and not you. Like you just said, you're really not going to say the wrong thing, per se. And if Jen being genuine and trying to center them will keep you from saying something like really bad. Now, yes, you may not. You're not going to say things perfectly, but censoring them will keep you on the right track.

Renae: Yep, yep. Centering them. And I think that there's a that there is a piece here too that, um, different types of congregations, different people groups, different cultural groups have different levels of comfort with bereavement, grief and loss.

Cerise: Mhm.

Renae: And I think that there's, there's a little bit of a connection here to, to how much room is there for someone to be experiencing suffering or to be, um, you know, regarded with unconditional positive regard. No matter their circumstance. Um, and it has to do with a little bit of what, what is that community's ability to lament look like? Um, because this truth telling comes in that lament of saying there is brokenness in this world and it's not fair. It's not just and it's not God's design.

Cerise: Yeah. What you're describing, what's the term I hear so often now? Toxic positivity. It's okay. We have to grieve things. Yeah. We have to grieve things. Um, to look at everything positively is not healthy. It's okay to be upset over some things. Yes. How we handle all of that matters. Yes, but someone being in a controlling or abusive relationship is not something to have a positive spin on. I can grieve that this isn't the marriage that I wanted or I dreamt of. I can grieve that I might have to leave this situation. It's in my best interest as far as my health and concern, but I can still grieve it. And you know, it's a it's a terrible situation. So yes, I totally agree with you. Some some cultures, some houses of worship. It's just, oh, God is good all the time. All the time. God is good. He is. But the world is not. The world is not. There's plenty of bad and evil things that are grievable.

Renae: Absolutely.

Cerise: Going on around us. So yes, I, I, I completely agree with that point because we do have to that can definitely cause more unintentional harm.

Renae: Yeah, yeah. And, and the, the, I love that it was in that phrase even that God is good all the time, all the time. God is good. I can I stand so firmly in that as a person who is suffering, who has been in a long suffering cycle for quite a while. Mhm. Um, Baby. And the goodness is not that God makes things shiny and the birds are singing and, you know, everything's cupcakes and roses and all those things. The goodness is that God doesn't leave me alone in it. And some of how God shows me that God has not left me alone in it is by the people that he will send that might inquire or might say, I'm checking in, or who might say, I'm here for you. Let me know what you need. Um, and so if when we speak to the, you know, the moving, what, how do we move forward? Well, as people who are, who get to be the, the physical embodiment of, of Christ's work in, in our, in our spaces because the world's broken. And how do we bring light and what does that look like?

Cerise: Well, we have to be intentional because again, just because you say something and you're sincere and you say it from a good place doesn't mean it doesn't create harm. So those, again, those, those unintentional phrases, they can produce real harm. So your sincerity doesn't matter. So we have to be very intentional and preventing further harm. Right? I feel again, when we're talking about houses of worship, the leaders need to be on board with speaking negatively about abuse. Um, speaking negatively about it. And often from if they're giving sermons or teachings or whatever it may be abuse should be addressed and addressed as a negative thing versus listen to. Listen to the leader. Listen like it. Open communication and open questioning should be promoted like people should be allowed to question things and and get like, why are we doing things this way or that way? And it lead to a healthier discussion, right? So those type of things promote healthy dynamics and healthy relationships. And that needs to happen from the leaders all the way down, right? And another thing is I, me personally, like I even say, because a lot of, um, houses of worship have bulletin boards and things like that, I feel like people need to put up advertisements, not advertisements, but well, yeah, maybe like flyers about it if you have the. If this looks familiar numbers to call for help. When people come in and see that type of information, they know well, oh, maybe this place is a safe place. Or at the minimum, you still provide information to get people some help. Um, I think that those things are, are the first steps. You have to get the leaders talking negatively about abuse to help it funnel down to the members and obviously get some trainings like, like we do.

Renae: Right.

Cerise: Get trainings in your church, get people to come in and do trauma form presentations to help your churches better understand and how to respond to, um, disclosures.

Renae: Absolutely. Well. And it's because the the power and control dynamic, um, you know, in a, for a child can be a bully that in the playground, it's a peer, it can be a bully. That's a teacher, it can be a bully. That's a parent.

Cerise: Exactly.

Renae: All of those things, if we, if we're, if we're making it part of the, the culture to say, hey, you know, God was pretty clear about not murdering people and that when we are, um, putting them in constraints, when we are not allowing them to express themselves, we are stopping their voice. We're, we're killing part of them. And that's not part of God's culture.

Cerise: Exactly. I fully believe that. I fully believe anyone in exploitative or abusive relationship is Bound. They are not living to their full potential of what God put them here for. So that is also some of my my passion and drive behind that. Like people are here for a reason, a purpose. No one was born without a purpose. And if you're in those type of relationships, you can't fulfill your purpose. You're too busy trying to survive, right? And I feel houses of worship and their leaders need to understand. Being aware of something is not an accusation. I'm not accusing you of abuse because I'm standing here saying abuse is wrong and we won't tolerate it in our church. It's not an accusation. It's raising awareness because many abuse victims outside of them not feeling safe to disclose. Some people don't realize what situation they're in and if. If. Houses of worship. Another thing houses of worship do is educate the communities. They hold classes on things, finances, um, they do marriage seminars, like families, like they do education for the community too. And many, many abuse victims don't know they're in a, in an abusive situation until they hear it explained that that needs to happen through our houses of worship. Um. Yeah, that, that, that is my main thing. Like understand that being aware doesn't put you in a negative light as a house of worship. It just helps you, you know, set people free. But that's what we're supposed to do, right? As Christians.

Renae: Absolutely. I mean, that was Jesus's first sermon, right? I've come to set the captives free. And if we're if we're, say, that's who we're following and that's what these these houses, if we're talking about in that particular context, um, like that's, that's the point, right? That we that we are living in freedom.

Cerise: Right? And they have to understand that that awareness and faith aren't competing, right? You can be faithful and still recognize and name harm, right? They don't compete with one another.

Renae: Absolutely. Well, sorry, we're we're getting close to the end of, of our conversation. And so I wanted to, um, give you an opportunity. If, if there is one thing, if, say, if a person just gets to their like fast forwarding for whatever reason and they're getting to the end or they're like, I really only have, you know, a few minutes. Um, what are, what is the most succinct thing that you would like to say to someone who maybe is in a situation where they might be starting to recognize or have recognized that they are in a relationship where they are being controlled. Um, and that the power dynamic is, is unhealthy. Um, what would you say?

Cerise: I would say silence. Silence creates isolation. It, if you're already isolated, it will deepen that isolation. Silence is never going to help you get to freedom or healing or a healthier relationship. It just won't. So I would say speak to someone, a trusted person that you know, loves you and cares for you. I would say speak to them. But as an advocate, I, you know, I always promote like the National Domestic Violence Hotline because those are trained professionals. You can chat with them online, you can text with them, you can speak to someone. There are a lot of resources out there. They even have quizzes. So if you are questioning it, maybe you could take a quiz on there. You can look at our TraumaWise conversations because there will be resources in there also for you. Um, but I would say silence is going to create further isolation and get you further and further away from healing or healthy loving relationship that you're looking for. So you have to speak and, and, and say it out loud, what's happening?

Renae: And for the people who are surrounding folks that that might maybe they are noticing a dynamic. Um, and what, what would encouragement can you give them for creating the space for that silence to be broken?

Cerise: I would say be attentive, be open to communication. Because, you know, we pointed out earlier that everyone's so busy and everyone has a lot going on, but take the time to converse with that person and check in. Like you said, I, I have people who check in with me. Just check in, say, hey, I noticed that you haven't been seeming as happy as you used to be, or I just wanted to check in and see if you're okay. You looked sad. You look down or I want to check in because you haven't been out lately. You haven't been wherever they used to go. Often, whether it's out for girl dates or church events, you haven't been out lately. I just want to check in and see if everything's okay. Just open the door and it may not happen that first time, but continue to check in.

Renae: Absolutely. Well, Chris, I am so, so, so grateful for your time and your wisdom and your heart. Um, getting to see you, um, light up when you declare that it, it, things don't have to stay, um, broken. Um, you know, in our, in our belief that people aren't broken, but boy howdy systems sure are. Um, and so we can, we can speak against that without it being that we're, that we're defaming anybody or that there's something wrong with people, but that we're saying this is this is out of balance. And so, um, I want to encourage everyone to check out Chris's contact information in the show notes for boundless her and for the other resources. And of course, um, you know, any anything else that you'd like to share with us? We'll, we'll put up there too, but just thank you so much for being you and for, for being here today.

Cerise: Well, thank you for creating TraumaWise, the whole platform. Thank you for making this time and space for this, this interview. And I appreciate your hard work. That's what I will say.

Renae: Thank you so much.