Boundaries That Regulate: IEP Scripts, “Voicemail First,” and The Long Game (with Karen Yingling)

Renae: I am actually super pleased that I do not know. I used to know, and I do not know, and so, but it is the maximum level of defensive offense coming at you right, right? And, and I think that there the wisdom of, I love how this person came to you and put again is created this container for success. By saying, I proactively, I'm going to let you know that I'm pretty aware that this is going to be your reaction, response to it. And I'm going to ask you to take a wise moment right, and pause and and really go through and remind yourself of, of what, what the intent, you know, what the intent, what the motivation is, or who is this for? And so what is, what are some ways that you have been able to take that same kind of stance with parents that might be something that they can continue if you're not there, because that's part of what co-regulation is, is you take an internalized our self regulation is internalized co-regulation. So what are some some ways that parents might be able to be set up for success going into these conversations with teams,

Karen: great question. I so one of the things that I tell most of my parents when I is, look, when you get a When, when, unless you have a child that has a significant documented medical risk, right? You have a child who who has very bad epileptic seizures, okay? Anything other than that. If the school calls you, let it go to voicemail and they're like, what I'm like, here's the reality. The logical reality is especially if we're talking about childhood behaviors, but any child, if it's life threatening, if it is a, what I will call a true emergency, you're the second phone call. You're the second phone call. 911, is already on their way to that school for your child's issue, right? And 30 seconds is not going to matter. The P the first responders are first responding. If anything other than that, take a minute. Let them call you. They'll say, This is Mrs. So and So, either everything's fine, I just need to ask you a question, great, or I need you to call me back. Okay, calm yourself. Take a minute, take a breath, call it back, because the and that's just a very practical tool, because then you can respond out of a curious nature, as opposed to reactive nature. So tell me what happened before Billy threw the brick through the window? What happened? Well, the teacher told him he couldn't go out for recess. Okay, so whose fault really is it that that brick went through the window? You know, that's an extreme example. I think when we're getting ready to go into an IEP meeting or a team meeting. It is those curious questions. It is reminding yourself, first of all, and foremost, you don't ever have to make a decision in an IEP meeting and

Renae: say that again. Please say it again.

Karen: You never, ever, ever, ever have to make a decision or commitment in an IEP meeting. Thank you ever and it's probably not a good idea, too. It's almost always a good idea to say at the end, thank you so much for all the information. I've appreciated the conversation. Give me all of the documents and information, and I will, I will consider everything you had to say, unless you're getting 100% of what you want and then you Sign it. Sign it and don't look back, but, but that's because you need a minute to review, to think and to process and to ask, think about all those questions you didn't ask. It's. So that's, that's sort of you. You don't have to make that decision and, and it doesn't matter what state you're in, you don't have to decide, right? Then, you know, some states are consent states, so in California, they can't do anything unless you say it's okay. But in any state, they have to give you a prior written notice if they're going to act on something. So you can always say, I need a minute. I need a minute. I need a day. I need two days. You know that that is the very first thing. So, so if you give yourself permission to not make the decision going into the meeting, you're going to take a lot of pressure off yourself. You're going to feel better, because you can take all the information and go read it later. I think that's probably again, giving yourself permission being I also tell parents the other thing to do is they've prepared. The team that you're walking into has prepared. They have talked about what they're going to say. They know what they're going to offer. All that you should do the same the day before the meeting. Write out your concerns. Write them out, read the statement to make sure these are my concerns. This is why I am concerned. These are where I think my child is, is me. You know all of that because it's emotional. I mean, being in those meetings is hard and it's emotional, and you there's a lot of this pressure because you have to like they think that they know everything, and you don't. And, and this is your child that we're talking about, your baby, and, and especially if your child is struggling. You've now heard all the reasons why your child is having all the problems. So now you really feel crappy, and you're in a room with people who are the professionals, and you're not, and you're going to forget something. So give yourself permission to not agree to not to just take the information and think about it, write out your concerns and know what you want. Know what it's going to feel like. One of the questions I ask my parents, especially if I know we're going into a rougher meeting, is, what's it going to what does this meeting look like for you? In order for you to feel like it was a good meeting when it's over, tell me what how you're defining success today, because if you don't know what it's going to look like to be good, then miserably, I'm never going to be able to meet that need if I don't even know what the expectation is. But even if you're doing it on your own or with a friend or whatever, have an idea of what's going to feel good for you because they're trained. Make no mistake about it, these these teams, are trained to make you feel good even when they are delivering really bad news and not giving you what they want. They're told how to do it. They're taught how to do it. Their law firms have put them through trainings. And let me tell you, those trainings are not about how to get children the support that they need, and is not what law firm attorney trainees and special education are. Those trainings are about how to make parents feel good and accept less than they should. So understand what that what tangibles you want to walk away with in order to feel like you made progress or success. Also understand what you're willing to give up. What are you willing to give up? I will. You know, I have parents who want to go to court over 20 minutes of school based occupational therapy once a week. Not worth it. It's not that good. Sorry. My apologies to any OTS out there, because there are some great school based OTs, but they are horrifically overworked and can't do for kids what they want to do, but that you know so so understand what you what your expect, what your concerns are, and what your expectations are, and you will then be able to stay regulated in meeting,

Renae: absolutely, yeah, those are some really important pieces of it's the it's not because it's not just mindset, what you're talking about too. It's the rehearsal. And I think the this is how we are when we're going into stressful situations, especially when we are anticipating that there is conflict. And let's be very honest, even even in my best meetings as a parent, going into an IEP meeting, I left one where I cried because I got more than what I asked for. It like they were like, just like, here, here, here. And sometimes there was still a moment of conflict because someone said, Well, she could do well if she wanted to, at which point the vice principal said, Oh, hold on, that is not true. And I didn't even have to say anything like she advocated for my kid in this right? This IEP meeting was such a good school

Karen: that's a trauma informed team that is

Renae: that was an incredibly trauma informed team. Unfortunately, that school has burned down from the fires earlier this year. I don't know what, what they're doing with their kids, or how they're doing it now, but it was the, my favorite school site ever.

Karen: There are some that are fantastic,

Renae: just and because they care you like there is just you can feel it that they care. And they have, they have negotiated that piece of finding the line between, here's what the stakeholders of the fiscal responsibility and the needs of the child. And and so I do want to say for educate, for educators. When we're talking about a team, we're not talking just about educators. We're talking about that there's there many people who are in that meeting, and that at the end of the day, that there's, there is a parameters that they've told, been told, you stick in here. And so it it feels like a conflict coming in to begin with. And so, but how do we how do we stay regulated? If we anticipating a conflict, it is to rehearse and so that that preparing for it and and thinking, how am I going to feel? What am I going to do if this is what's done? What if I'm going to do if this is what said? How am I going to make sure that I remember the things that I want to say and and giving us that ourselves, that opportunity, so that we have a plan, I think that that's really important, and it's not over preparing. It's not doing too much, because what you're really doing is you're, you're, you're pulling in your pieces to scaffold yourself

Karen: right, right? You are putting the things in place that you need to know to go in and be an effective advocate for your child, you know. And I do want to, I do want to say that most of the educators, there's nothing more sad for me than when I am sitting in a meeting and I know that teams are being constrained by something outside of that room. And I can, you know, I can watch teachers and educators, and I'll be like they, you know, and part of what I like to do is give them a way out. If we can find a solution, it may be different than what we think it should look like, but let's find a solution. Let's creatively problem solve, and I think we're going to all need to do that a lot more as as fiscal constraints change, as things happen, but it also shows care for the team. Yeah, so when I can sit and say to a team to a teacher, you know, when they express a frustration with a kid, and I can be like, that's gotta be super hard for you. Here's one of the things I might suggest, and if I can help solve their problem, they don't care who solves it. They don't care if it's me or the principal, or they don't care. They just need a solution that is, that's that is that that team, that's a real team building cohesive coming together space where you can actually work for the student's benefit, and as a parent, then you don't feel like you're worrying alone, right? And I'll tell parents you're mostly not battling against the kids teacher there, there are some, but it's usually things that are so outside of your control. So understand what you want, like, understand what's really, really important. You know, every parent wants a one on one aid for their child the whole time. And, yeah, that's actually not your child. So let's, let's come up

Renae: with something different. And I think that piece to like that, that collaborative piece, and also the the the reason it's the reason this is the IP meetings are not emails, is because it is collaborative, and it is you're you're learning information and listening to people say, Oh, well, what about this creative approach to it, or what about this creative approach to it? It has to be collaborative, right? Or it's not. It's not successful,

Karen: right? And it's why, I mean, it's, it's, the laws designed to set up like it's, it's, that was the intention of special education law was to have a process that where parents are equal team members. So if they tell you in a meeting, well, the team agreed and you didn't agree. You raise your hand, you say, I I'm sorry, I'm a team member and I don't agree. Yeah, I don't agree. Not all the team agrees to this because I don't agree. Uh, you're an equal team member, and they might be experts at something. I tell parents, they're experts in their little container of things. So you're the school psych. You're, you are an alleged expert in this, right? Your speech is, well, the expert on your child at the table is you the parent. It's the parent. Um, and that's kind of important. You are the expert on your child and so. So the other thing I will also warn you is that going back to to early part of our conversation, and I remember was this or the other one, but schools will, often times, go outside of their lanes and give you parenting advice that's always fun, so just be mindful of what you share in a team, sharing the important things. I had a client once she was referred to me, actually by a school district. She was just really struggling as a single mom. And they were like, Karen, I really, I know it's really weird, but can, can and so I started talking to her, and, you know, she called me and we chatted, and we were talking, and she was telling me about her child, and she's a single mom, and she said something, and I went, your child adopted. She goes, How did you know?

Karen: I said because if you give a child from trauma ADHD medication and it makes it worse, it's trauma, not ADHD. And that's a very non official medical diagnosis. Just it is not medical advice. It is anecdotal advice from doing this long enough. And I said, you know, I said I read all of your child's documents, and it doesn't say anything about that in there. And she said, Well, I didn't think it was important for the school to know that. Okay, yes, that's important. They don't need to know that you and your child are fighting every single bite and she's throwing stuff at home. You can say she's coming home from school pretty dysregulated, but you don't need to share the ugly little details. You know how you say it is what you say is as important as how you say it. So there's those pieces of it as well that are just again, being mindful, holding what is educationally impactful and it is also it is 1,000% okay to have an accommodation that say you'll connect with my child. You will create an environment of felt safety. They hate when you do it, but go ahead and ask for it, put it in the notes, get it in there that your child needs connection and that they need to feel safe before they are going to respond to instruction. And substitutes just, let's just leave it at that. Substitute teachers are not safe for children. It's not that they're not that they're not lovely people. It's not that they don't have a terribly hard job to do. They're just strangers. And again, this is a special needs thing. I don't care if that child is like the most well adjusted, non traumatized child in the world. Substitutes are bad for kids with needs.

Renae: Just action. If you just imagine you're a married person, and you show up in the kitchen and there's someone else there and like, Oh, my spouse called in sick. Like, right? Freak you out. Like, why are you folding my underwear? Who are you? Let's get out of my house right now, right?

Karen: You know, but it is very much. It is that it very, very much. Is that, you know, I tell people, imagine what it would be like if one day, you know, especially if they have an international adoption, right? One day someone comes to you, they put you in a car. They take you to a foreign country where no one speaks your language, nothing is familiar. They don't tell you what's going on. And they go, these people are now, this is now your partner. You're like, like, and I'm a full grown adult, not a 10 year old or a five year old. We're a two week old, right, right?

Karen: Um, so, so there's those pieces that you know, again, back to how we started, the very, very beginning of our conversations. It's about the child's perceptive perception, not the adult's reality, right? And so I don't care if that school psychology, I have a I have a team that put a child in a hold several times, and the school psychologist kept telling me, Well, I never put my hands on them there. I'm their safe person. And I was like, but you were there every single time it happened. You're not their safe person. You didn't help them when they were in distress. That's the child's definition of a safe person, right? It. You stand by and watch something bad happen to them. You are not safe. You just can't be and she and I went round and round about this, and I was just like, bless okay. So it's also okay to educate your team in trauma. Some districts are very trauma informed. The largest district in the county that I have my practice, Orange County, they do absolutely zero trauma training in their professional development. They're the largest district in our county. So we get around it. My parents that need to have it done. There's this great part of it, the IEP meeting called Parent concerns. So this mom, she's really good. She writes up about 10 minutes every week, every time we have a meeting about trauma. Let me tell you about how trauma manifests itself. Let me I mean, she just her. She's made a personal mission of hers to educate her team. She buys them books, sends them to them. She's going to give them all the resources that she needs. I will also tell you great story. We sat in the students meeting in February. Student had been in her close teacher's classroom, and about halfway through the meeting, this was the child's annual meeting, the teacher was in tears, and she said, this information and what I have learned I was in second grade, what I've learned from your family this year has helped me recognize the depth of my trauma as A child, and has started me on the healing process. Mom and I are both like, it's very unprofessional for advocates to crime meeting, but I did, because there's that power, because you never know who else is sitting at the table who may need to hear what you're saying. You never know what you know that speech pathologist who's sitting there, all might be like, Oh my gosh, this I have this other kid, and I think that's a problem. I think that's what's happening for this other kid. So when you advocate for your child, especially in the areas of connection, felt safety, emotional regulation, co-regulation, you are actually advocating for every child who needs that. And it really matters. Really Matters.

Renae: Well, I and I think that that's just a perfect place to to actually end this, this conversation. As far as building, you know how to rebuilding these teams, it's that we are building teams. We're not, we're not we're not majoring in the minors. We are not creating massive battle plans. We are creating plans for success. We're creating plans to meet needs for where we're doing the things that we need to to regulate ourselves so that we can be open and curious and ask questions in the meeting, we're being gracious with ourselves and with the people that are across the table, right, and remembering that they they were little people, and in some point too, and that if they're Fighting against a little person getting their needs met that tells you a lot about whether they got their needs met as a kiddo as well. Yeah, right. So I just really appreciate again, your your wisdom and everything that you have to share with our parents and the trouble wise parenting summit and also with the TraumaWise community. So thank you again. Karen, appreciate it.

Karen: Thank you. Thank you.